Hate will not stop the Marriage Tour

Tuesday, July 13, 2010

Attention liberals and activists of the homosexual agenda: Your hateful and militant tactics will not stop the Summer for Marriage Tour.

That's right. Today we have seen what is remarkably a 'low' for the activists of the homosexual agenda but don't be fooled - it's not a new low. They have resorted to these tactics during the Proposition 8 campaign in CA and they have conducted their first vandalism of the Summer for Marriage Tour.


While I stepped away from the Marriage Tour RV in Atlantic City, NJ today to get a glimpse of the ocean and take a few pictures of the beach, someone, who clearly has their mind set on same-sex marriage punctured close to a two-inch-long hole into the rear, driver side wheel of the RV.


This caused only a 6-hour delay because I can assure you that the damage and replacement of the tire was paid for by roadside assistance and by 9pm I was back on the road, straight out of Atlantic City, which you can see a picture of from where I got the tire replaced.





From there, I headed North, to where I am staying overnight at my sister's house near New York City.

Let me emphasize this: These tactics will not stop the marriage tour. While the hole was too large for fix-a-flat, we were able to get the tire replaced without disrupting the tour schedule and actually it was a blessing in disguise as we now have hired security to look after our vehicles and equipment for the duration of the tour.

So in that way, it's good that this happened now, a couple days before the tour when we have the time for delays and flat tires and the like.

Tomorrow morning I am headed to Connecticut to pick up Brian Brown and his family. Connecticut is about an hour or two from where I am spending the night in New Jersey. Then, it's off to Maine to kick-off the Summer for Marriage Tour from Augusta on July 14th.

139 comments:

Sam said...

Well, what do you expect Louis? You are driving around in a bus that is advocating to take away gay and lesbian couple's right to marry.

Don't think your group is all high and mighty. Christians have done their fair share of attacks to gay and lesbian people too

I'm not saying you got what you deserved because you have every right driving around in a bus advocating discrimination but I don't feel sorry that this happened.

Bob said...

Gays are the second highest victims next to African Americans when it comes to hate crimes and you're crying over a tire. Try having you head bashed in.

Anonymous said...

Driving around in your EXPENSIVE bus with it's EXPENSIVE graphics when there are people starving on the street and children who need help .

You should be ashamed of yourselves , spending all that money , DONATED money on a tour to stop people who love each other seal their love .

You make me sick

StopTheHate said...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Protect-Marriage-One-Man-One-Woman-Report-as-Hate-Group/141396045876921?ref=ts&v=wall

Susie said...

I will say something positive...I'm thankful you are o.k and the hole was noticed before you drove away and could have wrecked and been badly hurt. Its a shame that others believe there opinions are the right ones and anyone who sees it differently should be hated. I say for every finger those for the homosexual aganda are pointing at us they have 4 more pointing back at them. We have a right to express and protect what we believe and I'd like to remind them Christians have faced far worse discrimination that a "head bashing" and for a lot longer time.

Bob said...

Sorry Susie, it's just not true, Christians have not faced far worse discrimination. But playing the victim is what you do so well. There's no proof what Louis claims, just the usual wild accusations.

Anonymous said...

Oh so this is a competition about who is hated most then Susie ?

And you think a head bashing isn't bad ?

Besides , the guy would have noticed driving off with a flat tyre on a huge truck before he even got 2 seconds along the rough .

HELLO REALITY

Anonymous said...

Susie is forever playing the victim

a. mcewen said...

Oh come on Lou. In spite of it all, to accuse lgbts of puncturing your tire - without proof of seeing anyone at all - is ridiculous. The sad thing is that Maggie and Brian will exploit your paranoia to stigmatize the entire community.

Anonymous said...

I wonder how much the Mormons have put in this time??? Maybe we should get Congress to pass a disclosure law for non-profits!!!

Anonymous said...

Susie how the hell are you a victim ? You don't see us gays taking donations , hiring a truck and going off to protest about YOUR RIGHTS !

tINKYWINKY said...

HIRED SECURITY ?

MORE WASTAGE OF DONATED MONEY

John B said...

Making accusations without proof? So is the morality that "the children" must learn?

Seriously, NOM is nothing more than a hate group. Enjoy the attention you get.

homer said...

Did you file a police report? What proof do you have that a homosexual did this? Or are you just lying and trying to stir up attention?

Anonymous said...

Hope your journey is filled with nothing but drama, flat tires, busted windows, sugar in the gas tank, everything you assholes deserve.

Anonymous said...

Get a proper job Louis

Anonymous said...

"....punctured close to a two-inch-long hole into the rear, driver side wheel of the RV."......That, or you're a lousy driver and clipped the curb.

And Susie....while I'm visiting my best friend this weekend (he's been in a vegetative state in a nursing home for the last six years after being gay bashed by a pack of teens with metal baseball bats who thought they had the right to kill him for being a "fag") I'll remind him of all the horror you've had to endure being a Christian in this country.

Jaydog said...

@Susie:

"Its a shame that others believe there opinions are the right ones and anyone who sees it differently should be hated."

Isn't that EXACTLY what NOM and others who seek to deny equal rights to Gays and Lesbians are doing?

To put it mildly, Susie... you are an IDIOT!

Anonymous said...

Jaydog -

She certainly is !

Anonymous said...

Flip the bus and set it on fire!!!! That's our plan when you come to little Rhody!!!

Anonymous said...

What do you expect when your rallying to take away marital rights from gay and lesbian couples and their familes? Your group makes me sick. I'll see you in Trenton on 7/20.

Bob said...

NOM members please stop posting threats here to make it look like the "activist gays" are posting them. We know your cheap tricks.

medaka said...

Susie? Hello? Oh, just a little head bashing is nothing compared to your fat white privileged discrimination?

What happened to you? Did someone tell you the Bible might be a bunch of fairy tales? Did it hurt your goddamn suburban lily-white feelings? Oh! YOU are SO discriminated against!

You should be ashamed of your so-called Mormon Catholic Evangelical Assholism. Your fairy tale make believe bullshit does not trump WHO I AM, you stupid cunt.

Wrap yourself in a big black fucking niqab, excise your clit, and move to Saudi Arabia, for chirssake!

If I saw this bus and had the opportunity, I'd punch all the tires and ram potatoes in the tail pipes.

Maybe some art work too :-)

John B said...

Louis and James Preece, we've caught you lying before do this foes not come to any surprise. And please stop posting the fake threats.

Anonymous said...

I'm actually suprised Susie can even set foot outside her house for fear of the gayness getting her , one of the Facebook pages she frequents is always telling her about new gay things she needs to avoid ... movies and the like .

Thomas said...

Well as much as I think it was probably NOM's god that is the actual culprit of that inexplicable hole, Susie is right about something. Christians have been persecuted for a very long time (back to their beginnings as a cult.)

Bob said...

Here's the new artwork for your bus.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_jEtQCBpIyH4/TAENW5p0KMI/AAAAAAAAASg/M04sDeRf7n0/s720/Reichsadler2.jpg

FullTruthSeeker said...

Gay States get gay foster parents. Children deserve an upbringing according to social norms. Vote against the homosexual agenda every chance you get.

Anonymous said...

Ever thought that you might have simply had a blow-out?

I mean, really... and the first conclusion you came to is that it HAD to be a gay person? REALLY?

Ya, right... next time I get a flat... FUCKING CHRISTIANS!

See how silly that sounds?

Anonymous said...

And your proof regarding your accusation is where?

Maybe it was an Attorney General from one of the many states where NOM in under investigation.

Or maybe you did it yourself so you can cry victim.

That does sound the most like you.

Anonymous said...

How The Conservative Religious Right Created a Lie

The "Gay Agenda" is but one of the many lies promulgated by radical religious political activists.

The Radical Religious Right has repeatedly referenced an article written by Michael Swift in 1987 at the request of the Gay Community News as satirical "proof" of the so-called "Gay Agenda". The article is titled "The Gay Manifesto".

One of the most notable examples of the religious right referencing this article is the video "Gay Rights, Special Rights", put out by Lou Sheldon's Traditional Values Coalition. The video cites it with ominous music and pictures of children.

But when the religious right cites this text, they always omit the vital first line, which sets the context for the piece. In other words, every other version of this found on the net and in the literature of religious right political activists is part of the radical right's great lie about gay people.

"This essay is an outré, madness, a tragic, cruel fantasy, an eruption of inner rage, on how the oppressed desperately dream of being the oppressor."


A satirical article by Michael Swift which appeared in the Gay Community News in February 1987 was reprinted in Congressional Record without the opening disclaimer which made it clear that the article's text was not intended to be taken literally.

Bluto said...

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly."
~MLK

Go to hell NOM, you hate filled, lying bigots.

medaka said...

Susie, you're a stupid cunt. Put your niqab back on and return to Saudi Arabia at once.

Pastor Robb said...

Louis Marinelli,

We are always looking for new talent to fight for God's vision on a perfect America. Please contact me when you are done with this tour.

The voice of White Christian America

outloudandproud said...

Have you ever thought it might be God telling you that you are wrong?

Silly me, you make up Gods words to reinforce your hatred and bigotry

And by the way Mrs. Srivastav, if you don't like being called a bigot, perhaps you could stop doing and saying bigoted things.

Oh, and by the way, has your bastard son gotten out of prison yet. He must have been there as you raised him without a father, and that is where all children without fathers end up, isn't it?

Markus Hayden said...

Step one: Buy and decorate bus.

Step two: Call a press conference to announce a "Save Marriage" bus tour.

Step three: Fire up the right wing, Christian fundamentalist and anti-gay websites to stir up interest.

Step four: Be disappointed that all the effort and money and press releases AREN'T stirring up the kind of zeal and excitement that one hoped for.

Step five: Closed door strategizing to plan ways to increase excitement and visibility.

Step six: Purchase butcher knife.

Step seven: Puncture own tire on own Holy Roller.

Step eight: Write blog post, tweet, facebook posts and give press release claiming victimization by LIBRUHLS, HOMA-SEK-SHULS and other demonic forces.

Step nine: Sit back and watch the Christian majority get stirred into a frenzy over how they've been oppressed and victimized by a small minority of demonic homa-sek-shuls and wait for the floodgates of cash to begin flowing into the coffers.

Step ten: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Works EVERY time!

Markus Hayden said...

Oh, I forgot:

Step 8b: Write hateful, violent, threatening comments under "anonymous" and assumed names in response to blog posting in order to give the impression that homa-sek-shul Christian oppressors are making them so that you can use them as evidence in one's next World Net Daily article or the next time one tries to claim victimhood in court.

If anyone doubts that this is the strategy of this group, just look at the poll at the top of the page. They are obsessed with "how many people know about" this tour. They can't be happy that the majority, in their poll, are STILL saying that they weren't aware of it. Expect more of these shenanigans throughout the "tour" as needed to generate publicity.

Anonymous said...

May God have mercy on their souls.

By the grace of the Lord so go I.

Let's all remember the words of Jesus. "Do good to those that hate you, Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you." Matt. 5:44 Why? That you may be "sons of your Father in heaven"; for *He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and He sends rain on the just and on the unjust. (45)

Isn't it God who will judge in the very end of time, or the end of ones life? So, bless them now - that do not know right from wrong. They will not receive good for their 'evil' ways later - our lives are short here on earth.

Those living in sin may think they have rights here; and enjoy now what is evil, but there will be no such acts in heaven. There will one day be a time of 'total' righteousness even here on earth.

Right now this is a time of "Grace" to those the Lord calls (His sheep). We need to continuingly realize, He died for us while we were yet sinners.

As I said before,so by the "Grace" of God so go I.

May all of you, I pray, have a very blessed day; and realize a very very blessed wonderful day is coming. Look up and be not dismayed - our redemption draws near.

amiworking said...

"Those living in sin may think they have rights here; and enjoy now what is evil"

Funny, Mr. Anonymous, how you look at love and see evil. You're confused. Funny how you look at romance and see only sex acts. You're perverted.

I respect your religion. Most LGBT men and women have no problem with religion in America. It's when you force your religion into our households by preventing us from protecting our loved ones, our families, that we have a problem with.

Love your God. Shout your love for Him from the mountaintops. Just get off your high horse and stop using your religion and religious beliefs to trump my life, my love, the relationship I share with my partner, and my own religious beliefs.

There's a term for when one religion controls society and creates laws, rules, and attitudes that trump the ability for another religion to exist freely - that's called religious persecution.

That's what you and the yolk of NOM do - use their religious beliefs to control not only the loves and relationships of others, but to assert power and influence over other religions.

That is disgusting. That is anti-American, unconstitutional, and, in causing a great deal of very real and unforgivable harm to LGBT Americans, horribly immoral.

-RJ

Anonymous said...

I rarely read posts. They are all opinion based and thank God we live in America where we can all freely have opinions, gay, black, white, Christian, Muslim and so forth. I think BOTH sides have extremes. BOTH sides have been persecuted and condemned. Christians ARE being murdered around the world in horrific ways for ways because they are Christian and the same thing can be said for Gays and Lesbians.
Both sides do awful things to the other sides.
There are PLENTY of Liberals idiots and PLENTY of idiot Republicans. It is NOT just Rep. who are Christians and bash GL, Liberals do too, they just hide it better.
BOTH sides need to respect the other side and maybe work for a cause such as helping the MILLIONS of starving people around the world. BOTH sides spend too much of incestuous time on their own issues. Try going to a site like Hopes and Hugs, or the Humane Society or similar places and BOTH sides can stop feeling so damn sorry for themselves.
YIKES. God loves EVERYONE! Gay/lesbians shouldn't judge all religions by a few whackies and Christians/Religions should not judge people not of their faith. We are all trying to get to the same place. Some of you need to get a job and pay your bills.

Anonymous said...

This whole organization is based on hate , why can people not see that ?

Anonymous said...

Next time, they should slash ALL of the tires. And maybe drain the gas, too.

It may be a "low tactic," but it's no meaner than anything the anti-gay camp has done in the past few years.

Anonymous said...

Hey. I thought Louis would be used to this sort of thing by now.

Doesn't he live in Russia?

Richard Malsed said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
amiworking said...

"BOTH sides need to respect the other side and maybe work for a cause such as helping the MILLIONS of starving people around the world."

Anonymous, it seems you're forgetting one thing. The religious right (only including those against marriage equality) are using their faith to influence public policy in a way that causes very real and sometimes devastating harm to LGBT families.

It is because of policies enforced by those against marriage equality that I must remain where I am. If I move to 45 other states in the country, I would be left unprotected. I couldn't share health insurance with my partner. I would have to pay thousands more per year in taxes... which I can really not afford without going hungry myself. If he were to ever be in the hospital, chances are I would be denied visitation rights and, even if having legal documents, could be ignored as a medical proxy.

Hell, even in states like Rhode Island, a gay man or woman is unable to claim the body of his or her deceased lover to make funeral arrangements.

LGBT couples who are raising children run the risk of losing children, should something happen to one of the parents. Furthermore, there are areas in this country where I couldn't even walk down the street holding hands with my partner without running the risk of being gay bashed.

We're not talking about persecution of Christians by others throughout the world. We're talking about the religious right in America using their religious faith to cause very real harm to LGBT men and women. This is religious persecution, the assertion of religious beliefs through public policy on a minority group.

So no. I can't work with people who show no compassion and cause me real harm to "solve world hunger". To even suggest that shows very little compassion towards LGBT families in America who are experiencing hostility and discrimination every single day.

Richard Malsed said...

I called out for the thugs with crosses around their necks to leave us alone.
I called out to strangers for help.
I called 911 and pleaded for them to save his life.
I called his family from the ER and told them to get over here if they wanted to say good-bye.
I called the funeral home to make arraignments.
I called our friends and gave them the date.
I called out in anger and grief.

You called Roadside Assistance...I am really sorry that you had to endure such a tragic ordeal.

Anonymous said...

First, about Christians being persecuted. Do some research on Christianity and the history of it. Christians have been persecuted far worse than homosexuals. Read Josephus, a non-Christian, for evidence.

Second, homosexuals raise a lot of money to push their propaganda, to have their parades when they could be using it to feed and cloth needy children. I am seeing a double standard here from the homosexuals and their supporters. Those parades are not free.

Third, there are web pages supporting the homosexual agenda taking note of this event and have called for opposition against this tour. The RV is for this purpose and we have the right to have this tour just as much as homosexuals have their gay pride parades and events across the country. Talk about hypocrites. Knowing of this opposition and the turn of events should lead people to believe that homosexual extremist are behind this.

Those of us who are opposed to Same-Sex Marriage and do not support the homosexual lifestyle do not condone any negative outcome towards homosexuals. Homosexuals speak of tolerance, acceptance, and "live and let live" but only when it applies to them. You are fighting a fire with fuel.

amiworking said...

Anonymous,

I know that Christians have been persecuted. I recall the stories of lions and oil, gladiator pits and hangings. It was then that Christianity became a valid religion in Rome and then THE religion of Rome. Re: Josephus, you are talking about 1800 years ago.

The fact remains: Christians in America are far from persecuted and are, for the most part, responsible for virtually all of the discrimination and belittlement of LGBT men and women in America today.

Yes, you do have the right to have this tour of hate. We have the right to be there every step of the way and protest it. No one is saying that NOM doesn't have the right to tour the country - NO ONE. But NOM is going to face opposition and protests.

I'll give you a little tip, anonymous. Realize that you're talking about real people like me. I don't have an agenda. I don't have a lifestyle that consists of me being gay. Instead, I am a REAL person with a life, responsibilities, and a love requiring protection.

I don't care if you don't condone me. I don't care if you can't recognize love when you see two men or two women in a relationship. What I do care about, though, is that you are using your beliefs and your opinions - irrational as they are - to influence public policy and cause unforgivable harm to the lives and families of LGBT Americans all in the name of your "God".

You are crossing the line, anonymous. You are spreading lies and deceit in discussing "the homosexual agenda" - "the homosexual lifestyle". You are causing intentional harm to us and our loved ones. In doing so, you are abusing your right to free speech and acting in a disgusting and horribly immoral way. Get off your high horse and join society. Bigotry is so 1960.

Kylie said...

Actually a lot of money is raised from gay pride events and goes to charities so there you are wrong .

Gay pride cannot be compared to your tour of hate and how dare you make that comparison .

Anonymous said...

When it comes to religious persecution Christians have GIVEN every bit as much, if not MORE, than they've GOTTEN! Crusades of antiquity, Spanish Inquisition, World colonialism and genocide of native peoples, Church support of slavery, Southern Baptist racism in the American South, anti-Muslim modern crusades across Asia and the Middle East, anti-gay crusades here in America and EXPORTED to vulnerable African countries.

And MOST religious hate crimes committed in America are committed BY self-proclaimed CHRISTIANS against Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Wiccans and Christian vs. Christian (like evangelical fundamentalists against Catholics).

So every time I hear "Christians" claiming to be the victims of persecution, I have to laugh. They are DEFINITELY involved in most cases of religious persecution but, truth be told, they are usually the persecutor, not the persecuted.

Markus Hayden said...

Christians have been persecuted "far more than homosexuals"?

Please provide references.

How do YOU know how homosexuals have been persecuted throughout history. The vast majority of homosexual persecution wasn't recorded because it wasn't considered persecution to kill, torture or abuse homosexuals.

Nor does history record the persecution of the closet that affected tens, if not hundreds, of millions of homosexuals throughout history.

amiworking said...

To the last commenter (above me, 3:51PM). Can you visit my blog and email that to me? I'd like to quote you in a new post :-)

Brandi said...

Keep up the good work. Emphasize that the "Protect marriage" work is to keep the good thing that God established rolling. And be sure to remind those who call it discrimination that discrimination is unfair treatment based on who someone is. This is a work to fight against the wrong that a person does. There are no "homosexuals," just people who do homosexual things. And this attack is just more proof that homosexuality is merely a symptom of the immorality of the culprit.

Bill said...

The majority of recognized Hate Groups in America are religious-based.

• Anti-Gay
• Black Separatist
• Christian Identity
• Holocaust Denial
• Ku Klux Klan
• Neo-Confederate
• Neo-Nazi
• Radical Traditional Catholicism
• White Nationalist

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology

Leslie said...

Honestly it doesnt even matter who has been persecuted more. God loves christian and homosexuals the same, even if he doesnt love the life style of the homosexual. Honestly people should quit feeling sorry for themselves. Things happen. Tradgedy happens. Get over it. Grow stronger from it.Dont snivel and cry about the past look forward and brace yourself for the next day. This is America. Everyone has the right to express their opinions. EVERYONE has opinions and if you dont like it get over it. Only god can change them and their opinions. Why waste your time and energy working yourselves up over something totally out of your control?

Bill said...

What a lovely condescending post, Leslie. So being totally ignorant on the issue of sexual orientation, just give's you the upper hand, having GOD approve of your "heterosexual" lifestyle.

amiworking said...

Back to Anonymous, who Markus also responded to,

342 CE, Constantine declared same-gender marriage to be illegal. 50 years later, Valentinian II, Theodosius I, and Arcadius declared homosexual sex to be illegal and those guilty were burned alive in public. 40 years after that, Justinian I went a step further and laid spiritual blame on gay men and women for famines, earthquakes, and pestilence.

Along with Jews, gypsies, Catholics, Soviets, etc., gay men were a primary target by Nazi Germany for extermination in concentration camps.

From the 1300's to 1700's, there are documented and illustrative evidence of gay men being burned at the stake with witches, inspiring the association of the term 'faggot' with gay men.

Currently, same-gender sex is punished by death (formally) in Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, Yemen. At an informal level, gay men are tortured and killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

It happens throughout the world that gay men and women, even in more civilized societies, are attacked, assaulted, raped. The police are often hostile to gatherings such as pride rallies and LGBT/LGBT-friendly facilities are bombed, such as those in Tel Aviv.

In the United states, about 16% of hate crimes are committed based on perceived or actual sexual orientation. The bulk of the rest are based on race, ethnicity, nationality, and religion (usually against Jews or Muslims by skin heads).

Heck, until 2003 through Lawrence v. Texas that men could be arrested in 14 states for being in a relationship with someone of the same gender.

In America, despite only 5-7% of the population identifying as LGBT, 42% of homeless youth identify as LGBT having been kicked out of their homes. Because of social harassment and oppression by family and schoolmates, the rate of teen suicide of LGBT youth is equally as high.

So... while Christians hold a grand total of 300 some odd years of persecution between the death of Jesus of Nazareth and the recognition of validity in Rome, gay men and women throughout history have been oppressed, tortured, manipulated, and killed for some 1700+ years since Christianity has been a ruling factor.

There's a reason why the darkest period in human history (the Dark Ages, so accurately named)coincides with the time period when Christianity was most powerful. Religion does crazy things to the mind. The world could use with a little less religious zeal.

And to you, anonymous at 2:43PM... how does a claim to historical persecution give anti-gay, Christian men and women a free pass to persecute/discriminate/oppress? What world do you live in that makes that sound logical....

amiworking said...

Leslie,

What "lifestyle" are you referring to? Please. As a young, gay man, I am wondering what this mysterious lifestyle is. Perhaps it's the one where I wake up in the morning and have breakfast, read the paper, go to work, work a full day, come home after a long commute, clean and cook dinner, watch a movie. Aside from the fact that I fall asleep next to someone I truly love who happens to be a man, this "homosexual lifestyle" you reference is one, big lie that you so mindlessly adopted.

Yes, Leslie. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That does not mean that the opinion of the majority should be used to enforce public policy and cause very real and intentional harm to a minority. That is mob rule. That is the establishment of apartheid and segregation law. It is, at its core, immoral tyranny no different from the civil rights movements of old.

Jeff said...

I got a flat this weekend after a screw wound up embedded in the side of my right rear tire. Clearly, this was a homophobic screw attack. After all, tires don't ever get accidentally punctured during use, and, as you say, a flat tire = someone (or something, darn screw!) "clearly" had its mind on same-sex marriage! Which it obviously doesn't want me to have access to. So that's 1 flat tire for and 1 flat tire against same sex marriage. Are we even?

Also: why no bus stops west of the Mississippi? You clearly have many screw supporters along the California coast!

leslie said...

ami,

Everyone has a lifestyle.

Lifestyle: –noun
the habits, attitudes, tastes, moral standards, economic level, etc., that together constitute the mode of living of an individual or group.

*Notice the words habbits, tastes, and moral standards.*

God loves you of course, but he doesnt like your lifestyle. He loves the sinner but not the sin. He loves you but not the way you choose to live.

Also, if you choose to be homosexual thats your choice. No one should harm you. Your decision is between you and God. Its not up to anyone else to judge you. God is the judge and people need to let him be that.

Bill said...

Leslie, let's be frank, you put a judgement on gays and lesbians in your post. Not a very moral thing to do according to Jesus.

Leslie said...

Bill,
Thats my opinion. Thats what I believe is true. I'm not the judge. God is.

Bill said...

Leslie, your children will see you as a bigot. Their an opinion you'll love.

amiworking said...

Leslie,

Again your definition and application of the term 'lifestyle' is subjective.

From your definition:

"the habits, attitudes, tastes, moral standards, economic level, etc., that together constitute the mode of living of an individual or group."

My habits - I like my morning coffee. I like to go swimming every night. I check email and RSS feeds more than I should.
My attitudes - I enjoy and live a life where I surround myself with tranquility and laugh off conflict.
My tastes - I like white wine over red. I like lager over pale ale. I enjoy all music minus rap or heavy-beat.
Moral standards - moral universalism, I live my life in a way so that my actions cause no avoidable or intentional harm. Stop applying your system of social order that pretends to be a moral system to me.
Economic level - upper, middle class

Notice not one of these has to do with me being gay. One's lifestyle is not defined by their innate capacity for love or who they fall in love with.

Last thing for you, Leslie... you wrote "If you choose to be homosexual, that's your choice."

Homosexuality is having innate emotional and physical attraction to the same gender. One does not choose who he or she finds attractive. That is raw emotion. That is romance. That is passion. That is love. There is no choice involved unless one is irrationally swayed to live a life void of love and romance in the name of the Jewish/Christian/Muslim God.

amiworking said...

Leslie,

Last thought. Your religion is not mine. I would greatly appreciate it if you stopped acting like it was. And a hint: People will tend to not flock to your ideals, despite how sincere, if you say "My god hates your actions and will one day judge you." You may see it as truth, but it is only so incredibly laughable.

dtinnan said...

just from a purely scientific viewpoint, if the homosexual lifestyle is just as natural as a hetero lifestyle, can anyone show me a same sex union of two women or two men, that has ever reproduced an offspring? cause if this is a normal and natural lifestyle that we all should accept, shouldn't the lifestyle have the natural ability to be self-sustaining? how can something naturally breed (or not breed) itself into extinction??

Anonymous said...

Brandi -


"Discrimination is unfair treatment based on who someone is"

I'm gay , that's not all I am but it's part of who I am so you are discriminating

Anonymous said...

DTINNAN - So basically you're saying that infertile couples are also unnatural then >?

amiworking said...

Dtinnan,

Your question assumes one thing: that procreation is an imperative goal of every member of any individual species.

In this instance, it is not. Procreation has always been an imperative goal of the whole species - meaning that for the species to survive enough members of the species need to be procreating. For humanity, that is sooo obviously happening.

Dropping your use of the word 'lifestyle', it is obvious: since homosexuality occurs in nature, it is natural. We're not talking about sex acts here. We're talking about people having innate emotional and physical attractions to the same gender.

Of course, you fail in your last assumption, that no gay men or women are ever born of straight couples. That is so obviously not the case since homosexuality is a naturally occurring variant in the human sexual spectrum, around 5-7% of the human population in the latest studies.

Your loaded question makes no sense... scientifically at least.

As for your use of the word 'normal'... well... no. Homosexuality is not normal as in it is not the norm. It is a variant in human emotional/sexual behavior. Still, since when does something have to be 'normal' for it to be accepted? No harm is done when two men or two women fall in love. There is no rational reason to not accept that.

The world will keep turning. Heterosexuals will keep on populating (and overpopulating) the earth and society will move forward - having been improved by the contributions made on a daily basis by LGBT men and women.

Anonymous said...

Gay people are hate mungrals, if you don't agree to accept them, they will resort to physical damage of your stuff. They know what they are doing is wrong and disgusting, they just want to spread their hate....

Susie said...

Wow... that was a huge amount of hate and by almost all " Anonymous" people. 1st let me say all crime against someone else is hateful and tragic. I have never and will never condone such violence against anyone period. I was not suggesting it was o.k to hurt a homosexual but not a christian. I was merely pointing out the fact that Christians have faced the most brutal persecution and still are today. I have a right to disagree with the homosexual lifestyle and not be labeled a bigot. SSo if I like the color green and you disagree and like the color red does that make my opinion a hateful one? We are all human my question is why are you all so incrediably hateful and judgemental with those of us who disagree with the homosexual lifestyle? I'm not judging anyone I just don't agree with your view point of the homosexual aganda. God's love is for everyone I know several ex-gays who have excepted Christ and live a great life married to the opposite sex. I have not said one hateful or angry thing but yet I'm named called and judged all because I disagree. O.k thats fine no problem it's your right to your opinion and I respect that.

amiworking said...

At Susie "I was merely pointing out the fact that Christians have faced the most brutal persecution and still are today"

This is massively debatable. One would legitimately argue that the most persecuted group in all of history was the Jewish people.

Without realizing it, Susie, you have said a few things that we consider to be hateful. "I have a right to disagree with the homosexual lifestyle" actually contains a lie and an insult.

There is no 'homosexual lifestyle' - at least not one different from heterosexual couples.
This statement is also horribly demeaning and insulting to us and our relationships. It is akin to you saying that you do not agree with the love me and my partner share.

"I have a right to disagree with the homosexual agenda"

While true, Susie, you forget that this "homosexual agenda" reflects societal changes that need to be done in order to abolish policies that cause very real and devastating harm to us and our families. I'm not talking about "People don't like us" harm. I'm talking about our families and relationships being damaged by public policy, blood being shed, lives being lost, families being destroyed kind of harm.

Susie, your post indicates that, while talking about "the homosexual lifestyle" and "the homosexual agenda", you are forgetting that you are talking to me - to real people like myself whose only fault was being born in a world and a time where their capacity to love was considered less-than.

In supporting a position that manifests utter intolerance (bigotry), you open yourself up to being called a bigot - whether you are one or not.

John Kusters said...

someone, who clearly has their mind set on same-sex

Got any proof for this accusation? Or are you just assuming out of some sort of persecution complex?

dtinnan said...

infertal people are an anomaly. An anomaly is any occurrence or object that is strange, unusual, or unique. It can also mean a discrepancy or deviation from an established rule or trend. occasionally nature produces anomalies, infertal or handicapped, or homosexual. but nature produces enough, for lack of a better term, "correct" members of each species in order to follow the ultimate goal: procreation of the species. (quoting amiworking)"Your question assumes one thing: that procreation is an imperative goal of every member of any individual species." that is the imperative goal of every species. if it weren't for the "correct" members of each species, extinction would be inevitable.

dtinnan said...

Of course, you fail in your last assumption, that no gay men or women are ever born of straight couples. That is so obviously not the case since homosexuality is a naturally occurring variant in the human sexual spectrum, around 5-7% of the human population in the latest studies.
sorry, i never meant for anyone to think this was an assumption of mine. of course people are capable of producing anomalies, it happens every day. my point is very simple: if everyone decided they were gay, the human population would cease to exist, unless artificial means of reproduction were used, but if everybody decided they were heterosexual, the world would not require artificial means to procreate. seems hetero is more "natural" and "normal" to me its that simple.

Susie said...

@ amiworking I respect your choice to live as a homosexual and yes I disagree with your view point and I'm sorry for the way you interpret me disagreeing with this lifestyle. I just don't understand why people who support it have to be so angry and hateful to those of us who don't. And I believe the harm done to me and my family is also great. A homosexual can get married just the same as I did but you have to follow the law just as I did which states it has to be with the oppisite sex, not related to you and must be of age....so why are you fighting? I'm not a bigot reguardless and I am tired of being called one along with several other demeaning terms I don't deserve. I have no control over how someone takes something i say I only have control over what it is I say. This is my view of the homosexual lifestyle : I have a child she is 4 yrs old and I know as a parent if she chases her ball into the street she will surely be hit by a car and substain severe injuries if not death. I love my daughter she is precious to me and I don't want her to be hurt. So what do I do? If I think love is letting her do whatever she wants as long as she's happy, I wouldn't stop her from running out into the street because boundaries would make her angry and unhappy how dare I tell her the her actions are wrong it's her life so she can do as she likes. Or if I truely love her even though she might be unhappy and get angry with me I will stop her and protect her from the possible danger knowing that she could very well not really understand fully why I did what I did.The homosexual lifestyle is extremely dangerous and filled with sexually transmitted diseases. It threatens the moral fiber of society and has crossed over to heterosexuals. Even though you may not see it I disagree and support those who do in a nonviolent/hateful manner, because I know God loves you as sees you as precious in his eyes. I can diagree and leave hateful words and attitudes out of it. Why can't those who support it?

Bob said...

Susie, please, we cannot overlook your ignorance... people do not choose to be gay. That's something your "choose" to believe so that your church-approved gay bashing is somehow validated.

Susie, please educate yourself.

Daniel said...

NOM, like most right-wing moralizing groups, is run by grifters. Their goal is always to stir up hatred and prejudice amongst their supporters in order to get them to send money either for their partisan cause or to put in their own back-pocket. There is no evidence of who or what punctured the tire, yet they immediately blame the gays. Why? Because it stirs up hatred and rakes in the cash. They are truly sinful and evil, and hiding behind the cross.

Jude Stevens said...

Dear NOM
Sorry about the tire. Personally, I'm excited that you are coming to my city. I'm straight, 55, married for 33 years. I completely support same sex marriage. I would love to have a real, genuine conversation with the folks on your bus tour. You need to meet some gay couples and understand that they are real people. Yes, some people commenting on here are angry.

You see, it's because you demean and degrade them. You treat them as less than human. You believe that they choose to be gay and that it is a lifestyle. It isn't a choice. But even if it were, how does love hurt you? I really do not understand your position. Religious viewpoints carry zero weight with me. No one knows what God thinks, if there is a God, and it is certainly no one's right to judge except for God.

Why do you spend so much time and money trying to keep others from having legal rights and being happy? It does not affect your family one iota.

You cannot live in an imaginary world that does not have gay people. They are out, they are staying out. And yes Susie, if you don't like someone who is gay, they can respond by calling you a bigot. What on earth would you expect? Applause?

Some people are gay. Save your money, take care of your own families, and get over it.

amiworking said...

@dtinnan "if it weren't for the "correct" members of each species, extinction would be inevitable." Yes, but this is not the case. There are enough men and women in this world who are procreating. I would also like to point out that millions of LGBT couples throughout the world are filling a void by caring for and raising children that are often neglected by society. As a species, we have higher concepts and tools - homes, insurance, money, laws, regulations. While LGBT men and women in mature, monogamous relationships pose no harm to anyone, how is it in the best interest of society to create policies or restrictions that implement harm?

This is, of course, about men and women like myself who are living our lives to both enhance our happiness, health, and security and that of our intimate partner, family, and friends.

Your discussion on anomaly/variant directly conflicts with your point on decision. Being gay, that is having emotional and physical attraction to the same gender, is an anomaly that occurs in approximately 5-7% of the population. There is no decision involved. When it comes to happiness and romance (nearly unique human ideals), a small percentage of us recognize that we don't have that when being intimate with someone of the opposite sex. A heterosexual is not going to wake up one day and say "I think I'll have feelings for people of the same gender today." It just doesn't work that way unless the person is already innately bisexual.

-RJ

LOL said...

I wanna see them roll this thing into San Fran.....

amiworking said...

Susie,

I am angry because you are spreading these lies. You claim my beautiful, magnificent, wonderful, and right capacity to love "threatens the moral fabric of society". You compare my INNATE (look that up in the dictionary) capacity to love with "being hit by a tractor trailer". You see... I can stand by and take insults left and right. The moment you insult my friends and the person I love, you cross the line.

I cannot help but get angry and if you don't understand said anger, you've proven yourself to be an oblivious parrot, only echoing the things you have been taught from the pulpit.

So Susie, I wish you and your family every happiness in the world. I wish your daughter is always happy, healthy, strong, has every possible opportunity and turns out to be a raging lesbian. Maybe that'll teach you a lesson in diversity what love really means.

-RJ

Anonymous said...

I laugh whenever I see all the gay activists pointing fingers and called you "haters". They have proved they are the worse haters of all. They can't even accept that there is an alternative to their lifestyle, be it right or wrong, I am not the person to say.

Gay activists, take a good look at yourselves. You have proven you are more capable of hatred than One-man One-woman marriage supporters are. Unless you can clean up your act, stop treating others like they're utterly stupid and evil, and be open to a legitimate debate, stop trying to act as though you are superior.

dtinnan said...

@ amiworking: "Being gay, that is having emotional and physical attraction to the same gender, is an anomaly that occurs in approximately 5-7% of the population. There is no decision involved."
when a mother chooses to do cocaine while she is pregnant, the infant will be born with an addiction to the drug. this happens often and it is an anomaly. no decision involved. children are not supposed to be born addicted to cocaine. but the reality is, they are. should our society embrace their addiction and provide them with the means to continue their way of life? or should we as a society try to reform this infant and lead it in a more productive direction? another option: mom has a baby with what society considers a "heart defect". now if the baby was born that way, then obviously it is natural. should we leave that child to grow with the "defect" it was born with? cause hey, it can't help how it is born, right? or how about those physical anomalies? should we "fix" a cleft lip? what about the removal of port-wine stains, or unwanted benign growths? they are all natural anomalies, making the person who they are. same as the infertile. should we forbid them the opportunity to find a way to reproduce? because that goes against how they were born!! so.....if the anomaly is a preference for the same sex, should we leave that alone and let them grow to embrace their deviance from the species norm, or teach them there is a way that the species can grow that is more aligned with the "natural" way our species should behave

dtinnan said...

Amiworking, Good discussion, by the way. thanks for the intelligent discussion, without the name calling and angst i see in so many other comments people make on this site.

Bill said...

dtinnan,

Thanks for the hate speech.

Jude Stevens said...

Is there anyone listening? Being gay is NOT a choice. I'm a molecular biologist. Here's some data. MRI images of the brains of straight women and gay men look alike, same for straight men and lesbians. (Dr. Swaab, Netherlands, published in Proceedings of National Academy of Sciences). The more older brothers a man has, the more likely he is gay. Women with gay sons have higher fertility rates. I keep a science blog. LGBTLatestScience. All of the work is peer-reviewed science.
It simply is not a choice Susie. Did you choose to be straight? Think about when you have felt attracted to a man. Why did it happen? Did the feeling just come over you? Or did you consciously make yourself feel attracted to someone?
We are open to legitimate debate, dear anonymous. Make a legitimate point. And please, keep a 2000 year old book written by people in a primitive culture out of it. Procreation? That's an absurd argument. People desire sex because they want sex. Procreation is a side effect. Our sexual orientation develops in the womb in the second trimester when hormones are influencing brain development. Just because they are biologically different does not make them psychologically unhealthy or deviant.

No one is trying to stop you from having legal rights. So why are you trying to stop gay people from having legal rights? I'm serious. I'm listening.

dtinnan said...

quoting Bill:
"dtinnan,

Thanks for the hate speech."

this is the type of comment i was refering to when i thanked amiworking for the intelligent conversation. am i sending a message of hatred, simply because i disagree with someone? then there are alot of vegans and vegatarians that are thinking i'm hating them also, cause i love a good steak. the people who drive hummers probably think i hate them also, cause i see no purpose for anyone to own one outside of military use. i have no desire to live in a metropolis environment, but i don't hate "city folk". it is my belief that a homosexual relationship is not appropriate, but if you will look back over what i've posted, i have NEVER used the word hate when referring to another human being. it's the same on both sides of the debate. people like Bill try to provoke anger and hatred through their antagonistic comments, trying to lure the opposition into a name-calling screaming fit. sorry Bill, i'm not gonna bite!
Amiworking, thank you again for an intellegent, adult conversation and debate.

Anonymous said...

To all of you homosexuals and supporters who complain when we disagree and say thing you take as insults say we have crossed the line, what are you going to do about it? Curse us, call us names and insult even more. What is your answer for us crossing the line when we say that homosexuality is not about love but about perverted lust from a deviant deprived reprobate mind?

Get over yourselves. You're not going to do anything but scream and kick.

We are parrots. For over four years I have dealt with the same stupid excuses without reference to logic, proof, or evidence from the homosexual community. When we provide evidence that homosexuality is unhealthy and dangerous all we get is the evidence is bias and we are insulted; ignorant, uneducated, brainwashed, narrow/ closed minded, bigots, gay, homophobe, and many others.

You are fighting a fire with fuel. You're not going to do anything but burn yourselves.

dtinnan said...

and so the pendulum swings the other way......

Anonymous said...

All I have to say is PROVE IT!!!! You all cling to this unfounded idea that Being gay is NOT a choice and WERE born this way ....Well PROVE IT!!!! If it weren't a choice please explain why there are thousands of EX-Gays out there and many more leaving the life style every day. If you were born this way why in the world doesn't anyother species behave in such a degrading manner? And personally If you try and use the whole animals in the wild crap they also eat there own young and poop so...I kinda like to think of myself as more than just an animal. You have all proven you can't carry on a respectful intelligent conversation all you have done is be little, talk down to and name call those who disagree so all evidence says you know what your doing is wrong and you hate being told that, you hate the guilty feeling you get and noone matters to you but you which is....(drumroll) Selfishness plan and simple. Leave these people alone who don't agree with you not one of them has called any of you one name or said you were stupid like all of you have what is the matter with you people? Just as you have feeling and want them respected so do they. Just as you hate to be called or felt to be seen as ignorant so do they. Yet you don't care all you care about is spreading your hate and viciousness to prove your point and get your way no matter what the cost. And yes I know because I said all this all the haters will be all over we proving my point. So let it rip you will anyway because thats who you are and you can't seem to find your way out of your tiny little world where only you matter let the games begin....

dtinnan said...

quoting jude: "It simply is not a choice Susie. Did you choose to be straight? Think about when you have felt attracted to a man. Why did it happen? Did the feeling just come over you? Or did you consciously make yourself feel attracted to someone?"

ok, lets put it all on the table. i did choose to be straight. many of my first sexual experiences were of a homosexual nature. i was attracted to women, but guys were more readily available, so i satisfied my carnal desires with what was available. when the option of a woman came along, i put aside the homosexual ways i had chosen and went after the opposite sex. sorry fellas, i don't buy the "no choice, born that way" argument. i was not "converted" by anyone, there was no condemnation from "extremists" nobody "scared" me straight. i just went for the natural option for a man: procreation with the opposite sex. I CHOSE TO BE STRAIGHT.

Susie, the darkness cannot stand to be near the light, and must flee. Keep holding up your torch! "They that be with us are more than they that be against us."

The blog post doesn't name a homosexual as the perpetrator of the cut in the tire. Methinks some protest too much.

If the NOM bus ever comes to my area of the country, I'd be happy to host you all in my home, and welcome. Strong man/woman marriages are the glue that holds society together, and provides THE BEST foundation for the raising of future generations, tying together both genders, and connecting individuals both horizontally and vertically in the family tree of mankind.

amiworking said...

Anonymous at 8:16PM said

"Unless you can clean up your act, stop treating others like they're utterly stupid and evil, and be open to a legitimate debate, stop trying to act as though you are superior."

Dear Anonymous (It's so hard to type in a name, isn't it?),

Excuse me? Be open to a 'legitimate debate'? How is it that those whose religious beliefs cause them to oppose and act out against LGBT men and women is 'legitimate'? How is it legitimate that people like you not only have an opinion on the worth of my life and my family, but are able to harm me through influencing public policy?

There is no claim to legitimacy here. The fact that the religious right has the audacity to strip rights away is both insulting and unethical. The harm they cause through action is the epitome of immorality.

There's a difference between acting superior and acting properly. We are angry. We are damn angry! It is high time that the religious right step off their soap box and realize that they cannot and will not control this world. It is high time that people realize that through treating LGBT couples as less-than is causing real devastation and harm. It's time for the lies to stop and for freedom to begin.

medaka said...

Susie

"Wow... that was a huge amount of hate and by almost all "

You set yourself up for it, giving voice to your stupidity in the name of organized and well-funded religious hatred.

"I respect your choice to live as a homosexual."

I AM gay. I didn't choose anything you stupid woman. Here's praying to all the gods that you have gay children and grandchildren, and that they will know you for what you are. A hateful bigot. And not very smart, either.

"I respect your choice to live as a homosexual."

Well, I don't respect your choice to believe in a fairy-tale filled world of make-believe Christian victimization nonsense. Oh wait - maybe God slashed that tire! Maybe I should thank Her and pray that She smites MY enemies...

You people are already on the wrong side of history.

amiworking said...

@ Yours, Sincerely, who states "Strong man/woman marriages are the glue that holds society together, and provides THE BEST foundation for the raising of future generations, tying together both genders, and connecting individuals both horizontally and vertically in the family tree of mankind."

So that is a legitimate reason for you to influence public policy and cause real and very devastating harm to LGBT couples, their households, and their children? Your belief that a husband/wife/children family model is THE BEST is reason to reduce LGBT couples to a second-class place, removing from them the core rights, responsibilities, and protections without which can cause both severe financial and emotional distress?

Who are you to do such a thing? I ask sincerely. Who are you to put yourself in a position to not only promote, but to influence public policy to punish us simply for who we love?

-RJ

Anonymous said...

@dtinnan:

"I CHOSE TO BE STRAIGHT."

Wrong. You "chose" to pursue a straight relationship. And the fact that you were always attracted to women is a testament to your inherent heterosexuality (unless you were actually bisexual all along...but there's no obvious reason not to trust your account).

However, your feelings of attraction were not a choice. That much is clear. You could engage in brief sexual experiences with males, but you could never honestly enter into a romantic, genuine, long-term relationship with a member of the same gender - just as most homosexuals could not develop such fulfilling attachments to members of the opposite sex.

THAT is where the fundamental difference comes into play. Behavior is a choice, sure. But basic feeling is not. And THAT is why the aims of NOM and the "Protect Marriage" campaign are fundamentally discriminatory, ignorant, and doomed to eventual collapse.

Anonymous said...

@Medaka:

PLEASE don't hope that Susie's offspring will turn out gay - do you realize how much they would suffer because of her bigotry?

Upholding man/woman marriage as the true definition of marriage does not strip away the rights of the homosexual community to marry. That they choose not to participate in such a union does not mean they are kept from doing so. Homosexuals may marry the member of the opposite sex of their choice, notwithstanding their sexual orientation, and raise a family, if they so choose. What right does the homosexual community have to deny, by design, any child the right to be raised by their biological mother AND father, and thus experience, in the intimacies of DAILY LIFE the advantages provided by dual-gendered parents, and the INHERENT differences a male and a female parent bring to parenting? Biology DOES matter in marriage AND parenting. If you CHOOSE to class yourself as second-class, you do so by choice. A lesbian can make a wonderful mother--but she can't make a good father, and vice-versa. And, if you CHOOSE to base your personal worth on the opinions of others who do not share your sexual orientation, then you have bigger problems than who you can marry.

Attacking Susie for sharing a differing opinion, while crying out for tolerance, is the height of hypocrisy.

As we all have one vote in this country, we have the right to base it on our individual paradigms and viewpoints, however and on whatever they are based. A religious person is no more obliged to leave their beliefs at the door into the voting booth, than an atheist is obliged to leave their own beliefs at the door. If you don't like the Democratic voting process, there are plenty of other countries willing to strip you of that right to vote your conscience.

NOM is not/has not/will not ever deny anyone the right to own their own feelings or sexual orientation. However, NOM will/does have the right to stand up for marriage not to be neutered. Remember, SSM demands no protocol on sexual orientation. Two straight people could get married, under the rules of SSM. So, to take offense at NOM for upholding man/woman marriage (a biological standard, not a sexual orientation standard), is to CHOOSE to play the victim.

You're right--you do have a responsibility to protect your children. Are you willing to look them in the eye and tell your sons (who have the potential to be future fathers) that fathers don't matter? Are you willing to tell your daughters (aka future mothers) that they're dispensable as mothers? What does that do to the feelings of a child, to be told that as a future parent, they won't matter, because someone of the opposite sex can and will leave them out of the equation in marriage? Lesbian mothers send the message to their boys that all boys are needed for is as a sperm donor, when it comes to procreation. And gay fathers send the message to their daughters that all girls are for is a rent-a-womb; after baby gets here, that mother is no longer needed. Sorry, but that doesn't fly in my book. You honor children as future adults by showing them, daily, that both genders matter in marriage, that both genders are equally worth representation in a marriage, and that adults who procreate do so responsibly and make a life-long commitment to be there, every day, in the life of the child they produce, and honor the partner with whom they make that child. Even children produced by artificial insemination don't get here without both biological influences. Those children deserve to know their progenitors. They deserve it. To deny them that is to hand them a fairy-tale and leave them with a gaping hole of the loss of half their identity. Don't inflict that on a child, to satisfy your biological clock. Grow up.

"amiworking"--you ask me who I am? I am an American citizen, with the same rights and obligations as you--to voice my opinion with my vote. Who are you to deny me my Constitutional right to do so? If you don't like freedom of religion, then by all means, find a legal way to silence your fellow religious Americans. But it'll take a vote. . . .

amiworking said...

@Yours, Sincerely:
"amiworking"--you ask me who I am? I am an American citizen, with the same rights and obligations as you--Who are you to deny me my Constitutional right to do so?"

You are deeply mistaken here. You are going above and beyond voicing your opinion with your vote. You are, through the political process, taking rights and protections away from me and mine. This nation was founded with the intention that people not face religious persecution. The use of religious belief in public policy through majority vote does one thing and one thing only: asserts the religious beliefs of the majority over the minority.

Please don't insult me by suggesting that I have the same rights as you. You would not have me marry a person I do not and, by nature, cannot love. You're being dishonest here. Children are not a prerequisite for civil marriage. The intention to procreate is not in the establishment of promises when securing a civil marriage license.

Furthermore, I do not have the same rights, benefits, or protections as you as an American citizen. Heterosexuals are privileged in this country, very much like white privilege. Without civil marriage, my partner and I are left unprotected in 45 states. I cannot share with him my medical insurance. We must pay separate taxes. If something were to happen to either of us, hospitals often forbid same-gender couples visitation rights or medical proxy even with legitimate (and costly) legal documentation.

I'll tell you what. I was adopted by my parents. They did not violate my rights by adopting me. They are not less my parents because I am not blood related. To suggest otherwise and to pretend that there exists a human right for a child to know his or her biological parents is insulting to all of the good parents raising good children from adoption and through foster care. Your opinion on the mother/father archetype of a family is exactly that: an opinion not based in fact.

amiworking said...

@ Yours Sincerely

@Yours, Sincerely:
"amiworking"--you ask me who I am? I am an American citizen, with the same rights and obligations as you--Who are you to deny me my Constitutional right to do so?"

You are deeply mistaken here. You are going above and beyond voicing your opinion with your vote. You are, through the political process, taking rights and protections away from me and mine. This nation was founded with the intention that people not face religious persecution. The use of religious belief in public policy through majority vote does one thing and one thing only: asserts the religious beliefs of the majority over the minority.

Please don't insult me by suggesting that I have the same rights as you. You would not have me marry a person I do not and, by nature, cannot love. You're being dishonest here. Children are not a prerequisite for civil marriage. The intention to procreate is not in the establishment of promises when securing a civil marriage license.

Furthermore, I do not have the same rights, benefits, or protections as you as an American citizen. Heterosexuals are privileged in this country, very much like white privilege. Without civil marriage, my partner and I are left unprotected in 45 states. I cannot share with him my medical insurance. We must pay separate taxes. If something were to happen to either of us, hospitals often forbid same-gender couples visitation rights or medical proxy even with legitimate (and costly) legal documentation.

I'll tell you what. I was adopted by my parents. They did not violate my rights by adopting me. They are not less my parents because I am not blood related. To suggest otherwise and to pretend that there exists a human right for a child to know his or her biological parents is insulting to all of the good parents raising good children from adoption and through foster care. Your opinion on the mother/father archetype of a family is exactly that: an opinion not based in fact.

amiworking said...

@ Yours Sincerely (sorry for the double post)


Lastly, I cannot believe that you recognize that LGBT men and women occupy a second-class and do so by choice. This is well beyond insensitivity. Do LGBT men and women choose to walk down the street every day in America running the risk of getting attacked or killed because of who they innately are attracted to? Do LGBT youth invite themselves to being kicked out of their homes by their parents? Do LGBT youth choose to be harassed by classmates for their actual or perceived sexual orientation? Do we invite said hostility that comes from being reduced to a less-then status? Do elderly LGBT couples choose to be separated when they are ailing and placed in different nursing homes because the state doesn't recognize them as a couple?

Your opinion is so incredibly insensitive and causes so much harm to this nation. I am sad for you that you hold such a... verbose opinion about the lives and families of others and then to suggest that we are responsible for it all.

You will find that one day soon, you will not have a right to vote on my life. Once homophobia fades and we are recognized as a legitimate suspect class, as it should be, gone will be the days of public referendums where, for the first time in American history, the voting majority uses the political process to take rights away.

You should be ashamed of yourself. You are not only blind to the harm that you cause, but feel justified and even proud at the fact that you can cause it. How can you sleep at night knowing you hold so close to you beliefs that cause so much devastation to millions of families in America all because "you have a right to do it"?

Freedom of religion also guarantees freedom from religion. Do what is right and keep your religion out of my household. It's not wanted and will one day be recognized as religious persecution as it rightly should be.

So who am I? I am a mature young man who you have hurt by your considering it proper to vote in such a way as to prevent me from providing for and protecting the man I love. I am the faceless man who has been told his love is not worthy and not deserving of protection. You are responsible for this. Know that for every LGBT youth kicked out of his home, you are responsible. For every LGBT youth driven to suicide - their blood is on your hands for you have inspired such division and discrimination that causes a great deal of distress to a people whose only crime was love.

amiworking said...

@ Yours Sincerely (sorry for the double post)

Lastly, I cannot believe that you recognize that LGBT men and women occupy a second-class and do so by choice. This is well beyond insensitivity. Do LGBT men and women choose to walk down the street every day in America running the risk of getting attacked or killed because of who they innately are attracted to? Do LGBT youth invite themselves to being kicked out of their homes by their parents? Do LGBT youth choose to be harassed by classmates for their actual or perceived sexual orientation? Do we invite said hostility that comes from being reduced to a less-then status? Do elderly LGBT couples choose to be separated when they are ailing and placed in different nursing homes because the state doesn't recognize them as a couple?

Your opinion is so incredibly insensitive and causes so much harm to this nation. I am sad for you that you hold such a... verbose opinion about the lives and families of others and then to suggest that we are responsible for it all.

You will find that one day soon, you will not have a right to vote on my life. Once homophobia fades and we are recognized as a legitimate suspect class, as it should be, gone will be the days of public referendums where, for the first time in American history, the voting majority uses the political process to take rights away.

You should be ashamed of yourself. You are not only blind to the harm that you cause, but feel justified and even proud at the fact that you can cause it. How can you sleep at night knowing you hold so close to you beliefs that cause so much devastation to millions of families in America all because "you have a right to do it"?

Freedom of religion also guarantees freedom from religion. Do what is right and keep your religion out of my household. It's not wanted and will one day be recognized as religious persecution as it rightly should be.

So who am I? I am a mature young man who you have hurt by your considering it proper to vote in such a way as to prevent me from providing for and protecting the man I love. I am the faceless man who has been told his love is not worthy and not deserving of protection. You are responsible for this. Know that for every LGBT youth kicked out of his home, you are responsible. For every LGBT youth driven to suicide - their blood is on your hands for you have inspired such division and discrimination that causes a great deal of distress to a people whose only crime was love.

amiworking said...

@ Yours Sincerely (sorry for the double post)

Lastly, I cannot believe that you recognize that LGBT men and women occupy a second-class and do so by choice. This is well beyond insensitivity. Do LGBT men and women choose to walk down the street every day in America running the risk of getting attacked or killed because of who they innately are attracted to? Do LGBT youth invite themselves to being kicked out of their homes by their parents? Do LGBT youth choose to be harassed by classmates for their actual or perceived sexual orientation? Do we invite said hostility that comes from being reduced to a less-then status? Do elderly LGBT couples choose to be separated when they are ailing and placed in different nursing homes because the state doesn't recognize them as a couple?

Your opinion is so incredibly insensitive and causes so much harm to this nation. I am sad for you that you hold such a... verbose opinion about the lives and families of others and then to suggest that we are responsible for it all.

You will find that one day soon, you will not have a right to vote on my life. Once homophobia fades and we are recognized as a legitimate suspect class, as it should be, gone will be the days of public referendums where, for the first time in American history, the voting majority uses the political process to take rights away.

You should be ashamed of yourself. You are not only blind to the harm that you cause, but feel justified and even proud at the fact that you can cause it. How can you sleep at night knowing you hold so close to you beliefs that cause so much devastation to millions of families in America all because "you have a right to do it"?

Freedom of religion also guarantees freedom from religion. Do what is right and keep your religion out of my household. It's not wanted and will one day be recognized as religious persecution as it rightly should be.

So who am I? I am a mature young man who you have hurt by your considering it proper to vote in such a way as to prevent me from providing for and protecting the man I love. I am the faceless man who has been told his love is not worthy and not deserving of protection. You are responsible for this. Know that for every LGBT youth kicked out of his home, you are responsible. For every LGBT youth driven to suicide - their blood is on your hands for you have inspired such division and discrimination that causes a great deal of distress to a people whose only crime was love.

amiworking said...

Future reference... if anyone gets the warning that the URI is too large to process, the comments are queued up and posted through... refreshing causes quite a few double posts. I sincerely apologize for the duplicates. That was not my intention.

Anonymous said...

To quote you: "Never again can they claim that we hate them." Really? Sorry that someone slashed your tire, but gay people have had to put up with far worse treatment by your hands over the years. Example..... while protesting Prop 8 in California, someone got out of their car, broke a bottle over my head and told me to "Go back to San Francisco and die of AIDS." For the record, I'm a 26-year-old heterosexual woman. Keep crying over your tire and be thankful that at least your views and lifestyle are protected by this country.

Anonymous said...

You're title is correct, "Hate will not stop the tour" -- Hate is your whole reason for the tour. Same-sex marriage is legal in some US States and many, many countries. Your bus isn't going to stop progression, but it will at least provide for some good laughs.

Of course hate will not stop your tour.

Hatred FUELS your tour.

fiona64 said...

Leslie wrote: God loves you of course, but he doesnt like your lifestyle. He loves the sinner but not the sin. He loves you but not the way you choose to live.

Really? Did God stop by and tell you this?

BTW, you do know that your "love the sinner, hate the sin" quote is from a non-Christian, right? Mohandas K. Gandhi, to be precise.

My gay friends' lifestyles look an awful lot like mine (I am straight and married): go to work, buy groceries, do household chores, watch a movie on Netflix, do charity work, etc. I guess that your god does not like my lifestyle, either.

I can't help wondering whether Rabbi Yeshua ben Yussef (who said not one word against same-sex relationships, which were well-known during his time) would even recognize his teachings in your mouth.

fiona64 said...

"Anonymous" wrote: We are parrots. For over four years I have dealt with the same stupid excuses without reference to logic, proof, or evidence from the homosexual community. When we provide evidence that homosexuality is unhealthy and dangerous all we get is the evidence is bias and we are insulted; ignorant, uneducated, brainwashed, narrow/ closed minded, bigots, gay, homophobe, and many others.

Really? You've provided proof of what, exactly?

Perhaps it hasn't occurred to you yet, but straight couples do all of the same things in the bedroom that gay couples do -- ALL OF THEM. Yep, even that act with which the anti-equality forces seem to be so obsessed?

Gay men and lesbians no more choose their orientation than straight people -- and I'm straight, FWIW. Just three of the many links about the matter:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2005/08/14/what_makes_people_gay/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11910793

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1887219

How about the fact that the largest growing population of AIDS patients is straight women of color? http://www.apa.org/about/gr/issues/hiv/women.aspx

How about the fact that there is indeed evolutionary fitness implied in being gay? http://www.fed.cuhk.edu.hk/~lchang/material/Evolutionary/evo%20homosexual%20review.pdf

I know ... it's a lot of scary science stuff at one go, isn't it?

I have one more for you, though. There is a well-documented study that shows that the most vocal opponents of marriage equality (homophobes, in other words) are closeted homosexuals themselves: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_fuel2.htm

Just a little food for thought ...

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I wonder how many Ted Haggards and George Rekkers and other closeted gay homophobes are posting here.

Anonymous said...

I see a lot of threats on here,so who are the victims?? Who can't stand it when you disagree? I thought in America we had the right to disagree and stand up for what we think is right. Many of these posts sound like babies who aren't getting there way. Bunch of angry trolls from the FB pages. May the Lord keep you Louis and Brian thank you for taking a stand.

fiona64 said...

"Anonymous" wrote: I see a lot of threats on here,so who are the victims??

Spare me your "oppressed majority" arguments, "Anonymous."

You have the right to express yourself, absolutely -- but you do not have the right to agreement or an adoring audience. When you express yourself, there may well be consequences.

The "babies who aren't getting their way" (note correct spelling) are not the GLBT people and their supporters. They are the aging, white Christian males who are so desperately afraid of losing their hegemony that they will go to any lengths to keep it -- fearmongering, lies, whatever is required.

I pity every one of you.

Daniel said...

The only "victims" I see here are legitimate gay couples who are being denied their civil rights under law by religious fanatics (and of course their children, families and loved ones). NOM is most certainly not the victim here. They are the aggressor.

Bananarama said...

NOM call everyone from Equality Pages on Facebook "TROLLS" , they have banned every single one from the NOM facebook page because they simply cannot stand anyone to disagree with them , hence one group having to take screenshots to debate with them instead and post to their own group .
All you will see on NOM's page is people agreeing with them and also posting things unrelated to Same Sex Marriage , if anyone dares question them they are also removed and banned from the page .
NOM post twisted and inflated articles from their own blog which are usually disproved or questioned on the equality Facebook pages.

They thought that banning everyone would take away the questioning...well it didn't and now they label everyone in equality groups TROLLS

mantronikk said...

Why wasn't that bus under video surveillance when it was parked? I would've had at least two low-profile vehicles with cameras on the bus whenever it was parked. Especially at night. Whenever someone takes a stand for sexual sanity, homofascists go crazy.

Anonymous said...

I question if posting here even matters. As a hetrosexual male I will be labeled as a gay basher for not agreeing with same sex marriage. And as far as the issues in equality in the past i.e. 1800 years ago....homosexuality was very present and accepted by Rome and those who tortured Christians.

I do not see the point in going thru all this "who hit who first" stuff. If anyone one either side can not respect that there is a person with a different view then please float you ass out in the ocean and drown yourself....and thats even if you are straight or gay.

Who cares who flattened a tire....if you did not see the person then shut up and move on. You make us all look stupid.

amiworking said...

I'm sorry, Anonymous at 11:48PM. I cannot respect your opinion because, when enforced, it causes real and reprehensible harm to me and my family.

You see, where marriage equality doesn't exist, LGBT couples have avoidable hardships in their lives implemented through public policy that considers them less-than.

Your language here is heartless. In saying "I disagree with same sex marriage", you seem to be forgetting that you are talking not about an issue, but about real people like me and millions of other Americans whose only fault was being born in a time and place where they are punished because they love.

There is not one single point outside of religious control and hatred stemming from ancient times that holds any credence in the modern world.

So go on disagreeing with the fact that one day soon, I, a man, will call the person I love 'husband'. I hope that you may one day realize holding such an opinion is tantamount to self-elevation at the expense... nay... degradation of others.

We are telling those against marriage equality to stop. Please stop lying about us. Please stop hurting us and our families.

Those against marriage equality, however, are causing very real and avoidable harm to us.

And you wonder why we don't respect your arrogant views? I have never once in my life wished harm on any person. If there was ever anything I could do to help another person, I have. If you, a total stranger, asked me for help I would not hesitate because I would not wish to see any harm come to you. Why, then, are you so quick to embrace an opinion that causes harm to me and my family?

Please answer me that.

Best wishes,

RJ

Kwach said...

Bees swarm in San Diego ... it's God's retribution for a Gay Pride parade. Hurricane Katrina devastates the gulf coast ... it's God's retribution for gay acceptance. A Jesus statue gets struck by lightning and burned to a crisp and your hate bus gets a flat tire ... you think God might be trying to tell YOU something? I mean, a lightning bolt to Jesus' head is a much more direct message than some honey bees. I'm just sayin.

Kwach said...

PS: Hate will not stop Civil Rights. It failed in Montgomery and Birmingham and it will fail on the Hate Tour as well. Face it, you're on the wrong side of history. There's a whole new generation of young adults who don't share your opinion that hate is a family value ... and they vote.

Anonymous said...

YOU ARE ALL FULL OF HATE. ALMOST EVERY single post, with the exception of a few (and since most of you are COMPLETELY full of yourselves you will all assume you are the few and chances are you aren't). Good gravy, ALL OF YOU stop hating. Stop blaming everyone else. ALL gays aren't bad anymore than ALL christians are bad. jeez louise. get a life.

Anonymous said...

Kwach...put your crack pipe down and get a job.

amiworking said...

@ Anonymous at 9:15 AM

You told Kwach to put down his crack pipe and get a job? If you didn't notice, he posted at 2:27 AM EST.... if he is on the west coast, that's a good time for a night owl to be internet surfing. You, however, posted at 9:15AM... it suggests that you don't work a 9 to 5 or are spending your time at work insulting random people over the internet.

Kwach is right, Anonymous. There is now a new generation of Americans that embrace love and diversity much more readily than those before us.

In this instance, the new generation is, on average, much more socially evolved than people like you.

If you want to read an article that deals with all the argumentrs and how to respond back go here:

http://lindoro-almaviva.newsvine.com/_news/2010/06/18/4526247-on-the-arguments-against-gay-marriage

Kwach said...

For the record, Kwach is my nickname. My name is Lori. I'm a 56 year old woman, fully employed non-stop since the age of 18, mother of two adult children and step-mother to three more. I'm a partnered lesbian in rural Southern Illinois, we are both medical professionals and I don't smoke crack. I guess you're really not batting 1000, are you "anonymous?" I'm not always a nightowl, just on the nights before my day off. : )

Kwach said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kwach said...

Oh, and those young voters? We raised them. That's right ... five tax-paying, law-abiding, employed and educated voters between the ages of 19 and 26 ... all raised by lesbians. Be afraid ... lol ... be very afraid! We do procreate!! Bwahahahahaha!

Anonymous said...

I gotta say, the LGBT community wouldn't be so stupid to only pop one tire. We may hate your agenda, but we ain't stupid, so that obviously wasn't us.

Jude Stevens said...

Oh Anonymous - you, the one demanding proof. Here you go. Go to LGBTLatestScience.wordpress.com

You will probably have to google it. There is also a Facebook group. What do you want to know?
1) straight women and gay men have brains that look alike under magnetic resonance imaging (Dr. Swaab, Netherlands)
2)The more sons a woman has, the more likely the younger sons are to be gay. This type of study has been replicated 3 times with large sample numbers.
3) Identical twins are gay 50% of the time. Before you say that is proof they are not gay, you need to go to youtube and watch the National Geographic video on Epigenetics and Homosexuality. It isn't just about genes. It is about when genes are expressed during development in the womb.
4) Women who have gay sons have higher fertility rates. This is why we don't run out of gay people.

I think I'm being civil.

Jude Stevens said...

from Anonymous "What is your answer for us crossing the line when we say that homosexuality is not about love but about perverted lust from a deviant deprived reprobate mind?"

Um, my answer is that you are uneducated and you are choosing to remain that way. You have no proof, you won't listen to anyone, you have made that clear. You are degrading people and giving them every right to be angry. Do you really think that people are going to respond nicely to words that are so cruel?

Anonymous said...

Susie, perhaps you'd like to call your people out on their out and out LIES! Yes. There I said it! THEY ARE LIARS! This blog clearly states, "This caused only a 6-hour delay because I can assure you that the damage and replacement of the tire was paid for by roadside assistance ..."

Yet they send out a beg-a-thon fundraising e-mail blast stating the following, "We need 30 people this week to pledge $29 each to cover the unbudgeted cost of a replacement tire-plus a spare."

So it was 100% replaced and paid for by roadside assistance, yet they are begging people for money to replace the already paid for tire? How does THAT make sense?

So lets just assume that they need the $29 from 30 people. Why do you really think it is that they can afford to spend upward of $30 MILLION on a campaign in California to REMOVE a CIVIL RIGHT granted to same-sex couples, but they can't afford a measly $870 for two tires? PUHLEEEEZZZEEEEEEE! Girls, you're being taken for a ride! And it sure isn't one of love!

TRiG said...

Yours,

"If you don't like freedom of religion ..."

No. Your church has the absolute freedom to recognise and perform whatever marriages it wants to, and to refuse to recognise other marriages. You are the one campaigning against the freedom of other religious groups (and humanist organisations) to perform whatever marriages they want to.

Please stop the lies that NOM supports freedom of religion. NOM would like nothing more than a theocracy. Remind me, how does Niemöller's poem go?

First they came ....

TRiG.

TRiG said...

"Identical twins are gay 50% of the time."

No. If one of a set of identical twins is gay, there's a 50% chance that the other is too. This is pretty clear evidence that sexuality isn't purely genetic, but no one ever said it was. Environment counts for a lot (womb environment: there's pretty clear evidence that sexuality is fixed before birth).

Incidentally, the older brother effect is also a womb effect, not a family socialisation efect. Even if the older brothers miscarried, or the younger brother is adopted out into another family, the older brother effect holds true. What matters is how many boys were in the womb before you.

And the "overbearing mother, absent father" theory popularised by the pseudoscientific frauds at NARTH has been thoroughly discredited.

TRiG.

Steve said...

Total publicity stunt. If this blog entry claims that the tire was "paid for by roadside assistance", why is NOM now soliciting donations to cover replacement cost claiming it came out the tour's budget? Which is it?

Anonymous said...

Why didn't you report the name of the person who punctured the tire?

Surely if you know why they did it then you must know who did it?

You find a punctured tire. What evidence is there that someone did it and not something? What is the evidence that reveals the motive if someone did it? Without a suspect motive is all speculation.

If a gay man were attacked yet again, and the suspects are not known, it would be unfair to claim that the attackers wee Christians intent on handing out biblical punishments. That would be pure speculation. Similarly in you case you have no knowledge at all of motivations until you are able to determine who did what. To make speculative accusations is certainly contrary to basic decency.

Anonymous said...

Oh if anything goes wrong with your little hate tour it's always our fault somehow. Next up, evil gay activists cause our fuel to deplete as we drive across the country, please send us money.

Mel said...

The year was 1966 and they were wearing their wedding bands

She was black and he was white and some people didn’t understand

The judge said that’s not legal, the preacher called it a sin

But they couldn’t stop them cause he loved her and she loved him

CHORUS

Don’t tell me who to love, don’t tell me who to kiss

Don’t tell me that there’s something wrong because I feel like this

I know what’s in my heart, that should be enough

Don’t tell me, don’t tell me no, don’t tell me who to love

VERSE TWO

Maybe you’re in love today and you’ve been making wedding plans

But there is someone in your way shouting things cause they don’t understand

The judge says that’s not legal, the preacher calls it a sin

Oh you just remember they were wrong before and they’re wrong again

REPEAT CHORUS

BRIDGE

Now there always will be hatred and voices that condemn

Oh but I believe that true love is gonna make it in the end

REPEAT CHORUS (fade)

I have been hospitalized and am permanently disabbled because of hateful bigots beating up "the fat dyke heshe faggot thing" as one of them so charmingly put it. I'd bet good money Louis slashed his tire himself to generate publicity. Unfortunately, he and his NOM buddies didn't get their stories meshed because while Louis claims insurance replaced the tire and provided a spare within 6 hours, Brian Brown is pleading for donations from the NOMbies to cover the cost of that already paid-for replacement and spare.

Liars and hypocrites all of them.

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